Comments on The Pensive Quill: Reply To Sinn Fein From Gerry McGeough Campaign

sorry that post should have read save a few red fa...

2012-02-17T21:39:02.797Z

sorry that post should have read save a few red faces in prm ,

Anthony we all saw the rush led by Kelly and aided...

2012-02-17T21:17:30.403Z

Anthony we all saw the rush led by Kelly and aided and abetted by the Anytout news to kill the Scap story,it was a lot more than trying to face a few red faces in the prm,

Tiarna, that makes sense. What got my antennae tw...

2012-02-17T20:16:28.046Z

Tiarna,

that makes sense. What got my antennae twitching a number of years ago was someone trying to argue that collusion was a matter of the Brit state and loyalists. He was trying to throw cold water on any investigation into Scap.I found this self serving and felt it was more about protecting him than Scap given his relationship to Scap

AM It was mentioned to me some years ago. I am a...

2012-02-17T19:19:52.930Z

AM

It was mentioned to me some years ago. I am also aware of some lawyers working on cases that they described to me as "cases involving collusion between the RUC and Republicans; the RUC did not just collude with Loyalists". Separately, but in line with what the Lawyers claim, I am aware of a case that involved a London crook, MI5 supplied vehicle license plates, and the IRA killing the week link in the chain that helped cover the whole thing up... go figure.

Tiarna

Tiarna, 'I have heard it said (by journalists...

2012-02-17T11:09:47.473Z

Tiarna,

'I have heard it said (by journalists) that SF have as much to hide as the Brits when it comes to high profile informers.'

Have no reason to disagree with that. Scap was hardly the highest placed.

I think Barney Rowan mentioned that at a discussion a while back and the only response to him was maybe the spooks fed that line.

That was said in defence of Scap also.

Yes Helen credit where credit is due Pat Ramsey is...

2012-02-16T21:37:25.798Z

Yes Helen credit where credit is due Pat Ramsey is at least keeping a light lit on this issue and he should be commended for it,

From Helen McClafferty: Mr. Patterson is beyond a...

2012-02-16T20:53:45.408Z

From Helen McClafferty:

Mr. Patterson is beyond arrogant and his refusal to meet with Mr. Ramsey should be considered a slap in the face to all of us. Mr. Ramsey's attempt to address this issue directly with Mr. Paterson should be commended and we should all rally behind him regardless of political affiliation. Mr. Patterson’s refusal to accommodate such a request from an MLA in Stormont proves, beyond a doubt, the total contempt he and the British government have for the nationalist community and their elected officials.

Secretary of State refuses to meet Derry MLA on Price and McGeough prison cases

Feb 16

Posted by seachranaidhe1

The Secretary of State has refused to meet with SDLP Foyle MLA Pat Ramsey to discuss the ongoing cases of Marian Price, Gerry McGeough and the protesting prisoners at Maghaberry Prison.

Mr Ramsey said that he was ‘disappointed and angry’ that Owen Paterson refused to meet with him and said his silence on the prison matters was ‘not conducive to efforts to address injustice and nurture public confidence in the justice system’.

Mr Ramsey said: “I wrote to the Secretary of State immediately after returning from a visit to see Marian Price on 13th January to request an urgent meeting to discuss her case and the ongoing incarceration of Gerry McGeough as well as the general situation within Roe House in Maghaberry Prison. I received a reply from the Secretary this morning to say he would not meet me and that it would be ‘inappropriate’ for him to comment further.

STOP POLITICIAL POLICING

“I find it ‘inappropriate’ to say the least that Marian Price has had her licence revoked on the Secretary’s say so, and that Gerry McGeough is still held in Maghaberry due to Owen Paterson’s refusal to grant him justice. The Secretary of State and the NIO‘s selective silence is not conducive to our efforts to address injustice and nurture public confidence in the justice system.”

Ms Price has been held in solitary confinement at Maghaberry Prison for over nine months without charge. She was arrested after holding a piece of paper for a masked man at an annual Easter Rising commemoration in Derry, a few days later Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Owen Paterson revoked her release from prison on license.

“Perhaps Mr Patterson’s time would be better spent in the archives of the NIO looking for Marian Price’s pardon that has been ‘lost’ if he is not available to elected representatives to give account for his actions – or inaction - and that of his staff,” Mr Ramsey said. “It is unacceptable and merely strengthens the will of those who seek to destroy the society we are building, by pointing out that unaccountable politicians in London continue to meddle in affairs that play out in our communities day and daily.”

With Many Thanks To : NewsWire

From Helen McClafferty: Decision on both McGeoug...

2012-02-15T16:51:42.753Z

From Helen McClafferty:

Decision on both McGeough's Appeal and Judicial Review will be handed down on Tuesday, February 28th

Spoke to Gerry this morning. He has been informed by his attorney that the ‘judgment’ on both his Appeal, which was heard November 16, 2011, and his Judicial Review, which was heard on January 6, 2012, will be handed down on Tuesday - February 28th.

The fact that both decisions will be handed down simultaneously, on the same day, is not a coincidence. Gerry believes this directive is coming from the highest political level within the British government. All we can do now is wait and hope for a positive outcome. Please keep Gerry and his family in your prayers.

AM Depending on what X,Y or Z might be I think th...

2012-02-15T13:19:34.147Z

AM

Depending on what X,Y or Z might be I think that could well be the most pragmatic and sensible approach for some to take ...providing it was an effective (and somewhat palatable)approach? I would question, to some extent, the generational adherence to sacrifice, hardship and poverty that many republicans did/have burdened their families with.

While many individual and collective campaigns continue in regard to past injustices SF seems to have bowed out of them all (except on occasion when being associated is politically advantageous).

I have heard it said (by journalists) that SF have as much to hide as the Brits when it comes to high profile informers.

I do note calls for the 'past to be left in the past' which comes strongest from the Unionist/Securocrate communities. These same voices are the most vocal in calling for all the state oppressive measures from the past to be enforced and built upon today; which is evidence that calls to leave the 'past in the past' are purely self serving.

SF's acceptance to one of these options, and, refrain from objecting to the other is perhaps the most revealing of SF's direction... and meekly following(approving) that route for reasons of x y or z would hold no moral justification; again I would ask why would those who have dogmatically adhered to a position that involved enduring untold hardship, risks and personal loss, now capitulate at the behest of SF? I suppose the erratic and irrational ineffectual actions of the current (almost prolific) little bands of 'warlord' like organizations would discourage the stoutest heart.

Tiarna

Tiarna

I was listening to qsf,s Sue Ramsey on bbc radio U...

2012-02-15T13:19:17.399Z

I was listening to qsf,s Sue Ramsey on bbc radio Ulster a wee while ago agreeing with her psni colleague about the problems with on street drunks, the first thing I did was reach for the nearest bottle,While I agree with you Anthony that the war could never have been won under the circumstances you mentioned, that is not to say a military victory was not achievable given a much tighter and cohesive organisation,the quality was imo there it lacked genuine leadership not ego hunters, I agree that agents of influence and the way they were able to help run the prm into the ground is a topic that needs to investigated, most of the carpetbaggers in qsf would have joined the uvf on Adams say so .

Tiarna, I suppose the old adage that people are m...

2012-02-15T12:35:11.620Z

Tiarna,

I suppose the old adage that people are more afraid of being isolated than they are of being wrong has something to do with it.

Over the years I have spoken with so many of them and they have stated 'if they do X, Y or Z that is me finished.' But when X, Y and Z was done they stayed on and tried to justify it.

A return to violence is both wrong and sterile but it does not preclude people asking questions.

I think the failure of the IRA campaign is worthy of study for a variety of reasons. The notion that the outcome should be regarded as a victory when it flies in the face of everything said previously is not something that should be entertained.

The current outcome can be defended from a refromist perspective even if it has serious limitations but it can hardly be defended from a republican perspective. We need only look at the discourse moulded against the Sticks for advocating and embracing similar policies.

AM Yes, in Unionist terms, SF have conceded to be...

2012-02-15T11:57:14.623Z

AM

Yes, in Unionist terms, SF have conceded to being 'house trained'.

As an observer looking in I think a factor which SF now relies heavily upon for cohesion is the respect and regard that longstanding former 'comrades' have for each other, for example, blanket-men, who may now be of opposing opinions; neither may wish to politically gut the other out of some sense for 'old times sake'. That is what would occur if there was a serious attempt to ask, or answer, those questions that you refer to.

I do not know, so maybe you can clarify this, but why are former IRA people more devout to SF even though that was not the organization that they had sworn an oath of allegiance to? I am not heralding a return to violence but wondering how the dogmatic adherence to ideals and principles was replaced by a such a passive readiness to capitulate?

Tiarna

Marty, I don't believe the war could have bee...

2012-02-15T11:23:29.075Z

Marty,

I don't believe the war could have been won for a whole host of reasons. I remember talking to Jack Holland once. We were talking about how the IRA had been defeated. This is before it, in Morrison's terms, officially surrendered. We were discussing why it had lost the war. Jack had read the notes of Ian Phoenix for the book he was writing. He said the degree of penetration in Belfast that the notes revealed was unbelievable. The agent that Phoenix was handling was so senior that he met the key leaders on a daily basis and very much had his finger on the pie of operations. Jack's view was the degree of penetration simply did not allow the prosecution of a successful military campaign.

Tiarna, I was at a conference in England a few ye...

2012-02-15T11:15:28.760Z

Tiarna,

I was at a conference in England a few years ago and I said to a senior Brit official 'you shafted republicans.' His answer was as concise as it was clear. 'Republicans shafted republicans.'

The Brits know the score in terms of what their strategic objectives were. They achieved them to the point that they got the Provos os to push their key ideas.

The prison abuses that we witness today are part of SF 'achievements.' They negotiated the situation that prevails today.

Spot on a cara Gerry is imo a warning to all and s...

2012-02-15T11:09:18.830Z

Spot on a cara Gerry is imo a warning to all and sundry to keep in line,rather the war could have been won,well not with that leadership,who as it transpires really had no heart for it anyway, sure as Gerry says HE WASNT EVEN IN THE RA !had we as Alec said some more charismatic people and we did have, and had they been allowed to surface,then I,m sure the outcome would have been entirely different,as they say if your going to fight then fight to win ,those people only fought for crumbs of their masters table,

AM Yes that could be considered as the sum total ...

2012-02-15T10:10:24.704Z

AM

Yes that could be considered as the sum total of SF negotiations, in a word, 'failure'.

But if one considers the more positive achievement, namely, a statutory watchdog for human rights, then one must consider its place and value also. Prison issues proved to be the divisive human rights issues of the past, so much so, that it cost people their lives (prisoners, outside protestors or those implementing the regimes etc.). Such a watchdog, it could be presumed, was intended to flag human rights conditions and circumstances that bring a return to violence as an only option for those on the raw end of the stick.

All current issues revolving around the prisons and prisoners do not reflect well on SF. I am wholly surprised that the NIHRC is not in the thick of the current prison issues at the behest of SF. Perhaps that too is another damp squib, or in SF valued opinion, "This is unacceptable to us and is an outstanding issue we are determined to resolve."

Tiarna

Marty, I don't believe the war could have bee...

2012-02-15T08:31:39.027Z

Marty,

I don't believe the war could have been won. I don't believe that the scale of the defeat had to be so comprehensive. The questions that republicans raise today seem legitimate to me. If Morrison described decommissioning as an IRA surrender and Gibney/Hartley described a power sharing executive short of a Brit declaration of intent to withdraw as a sell out, why is it wrong for republicans to ask questions of them based on what they themselves said?

What we see in the case of Gerry McGeough is the British state consolidating its victory over the Provisionals.

All I,ve ever heard Anthony was "we werent go...

2012-02-14T22:02:21.400Z

All I,ve ever heard Anthony was "we werent going anywhere" or" burnt out"and the looks when the suggestion was made for maybe a change in leadership from the old burnt out lack of imagination and possibly suspect leadership,well as they say looks could kill ,those people most certainly would have to protect their position and sure its no wonder when we now see how the whole thing panned out,

Marty, there has never been a convincing explanat...

2012-02-14T20:59:41.283Z

Marty,

there has never been a convincing explanation by them of how they got to this position

True Anthony I have not met a single ex active re...

2012-02-14T20:50:00.339Z

True Anthony I have not met a single ex active republican outside the gravy train clique who accepts qsf,s position on anything,the destruction of weapons was not in the gift of a few to do so and the surrender as you rightly say was never on any agenda,other than the now well heeled suited and booted few.

Marty, even in terms of reformism it has been a v...

2012-02-14T20:40:07.261Z

Marty,

even in terms of reformism it has been a very poor outcome. I don't believe I ever met one volunteeer during the campaign who would have defended this as worth fighting for. Many came to accept it but none ever claimed to think it worthwhile when fighting. Morrison described decommissioning as an IRA surrender. I agree with him on that. But who was arguing for an IRA surrender?

But we DID get some very nice houses,and the dosh...

2012-02-14T20:30:45.708Z

But we DID get some very nice houses,and the dosh to live in them comfortably ...its Vals day..love Gerry and the peacemakers x

Tiarna, in many ways it underscores the myth of g...

2012-02-14T20:22:18.700Z

Tiarna,

in many ways it underscores the myth of great negotiators. From any republican perspective what was delivered on policing was a very poor outcome. Muttering about the dark side of policing does not cut the mustard. In fact it is a statement of SF failure on the policing question. What they now have for all the republican effort is that SF support an armed British police force within a British NI

"This is unacceptable to us and is an outstan...

2012-02-14T19:53:41.665Z

"This is unacceptable to us and is an outstanding issue we are determined to resolve."

At what position does this issue take in the long list of those issues 'outstanding'? Like for instance Emergency Powers, removal of right to silence, extended detentions, Diplock Courts, RUC special branch operatives (now civilianised) --oh and that border issue too??

It would appear that SF are now merely passive passengers on the coat tails of unionists.

PS: What is the Catholic/Protestant ratio of the PSNI if civilian employees are included in the overall statistical tally?

Tiarna