Comments on The Pensive Quill: The New Politics of Sinn Fein

Eddie, ‘To be honest i am not one of those folks ...

2011-07-06T07:28:32.910+01:00

Eddie,

‘To be honest i am not one of those folks who delve into the analytical world of how we got here, that is for my part something i leave to others.’

Horses for courses just.

‘I am one of those people that can only see the reality of the picture as it presents itself’

And it is a pretty clear picture.

‘To me debating the whys and hows are debilitating and only deflect from the means to overthrow this mutinous and shameful hijacking of Irish republicanism.’

It can often be a chore and off putting to many but I always found debate essential and fail to see what progress can be made without it. Still, I am aware of the old phrase ‘when all is said and done more will be said than done.’! So, as a general rule discussion can become a ruse for doing nothing at a time when something is in need of doing.

A very interestesting review.To be honest i am not...

2011-07-03T20:14:59.290+01:00

A very interestesting review.To be honest i am not one of those folks who delve into the analytical world of how we got here,that is for my part something i leave to others.
I am one of those people that can only see the reality of the picture as it presents itself and i cannot be beguiled by the smoke and mirrors of the SF PRO machine.
To me debating the whys and hows are debilitating and only deflect from the means to overthrow this mutinous and shameful hijacking of Irish republicanism. By people who are no longer standard-bearers to the spirit of the proclamation.
From my view,I see Gerry Adams as someone who suffers from mental illness,multiple peronalities,he will be to all what they expect him to be.
Psychosis,he is totally divorced from the Ideals he set out on in the pursuit of a 32 county socialist Irish republic.
Delusional,for thinking that all Irish republicans will swallow the lexicon of Gerrys way forward for Ireland.

Mickerboy the way psf is calling on people to tout...

2011-06-29T12:39:51.992+01:00

Mickerboy the way psf is calling on people to tout on republicans it wont be long before the gaols are filled again,

Fionnuala- Don't know if you read ógra shinn ...

2011-06-29T02:07:40.063+01:00

Fionnuala-

Don't know if you read ógra shinn féin on the net- but they have just taken another group around armagh Gaol- a lot of our youth has been shown around all the x p.o.w
camps- i know that you will disagree- but this youth will teach the next youth- people lost their youth in the camps- for their country- it will always be in Irish minds-

Marty, Albert has definitely got the book with hi...

2011-06-28T13:28:55.711+01:00

Marty,
Albert has definitely got the book with him today. Monday's are not his best days usually a bit stung from the Sunday booze, not that he would ever admit it.
Anyway, sincere apologies and enjoy the read.

michealhenry, McGuinness, might have been seriousl...

2011-06-28T12:27:24.144+01:00

michealhenry,
McGuinness, might have been seriously worried if that 'old codger' had of been behind him on the bridge the other night.
Apparently, everyone in the bar was shouting 'jump' as McGuinness not Robinson put his foot on the bridge.

michaelhenry, So some "old codger" (as y...

2011-06-26T21:34:08.977+01:00

michaelhenry,
So some "old codger" (as you call him) in a bar shouting at the tv annoys you? Believe me, I know quite a lot of people that were really annoyed and angry when that tout McGuiness called people "traitors!" Remember SF are the real "dissidents" in all this, as they ditched any semblance of republicanism ages ago.

Nuala go raibh maith agat a cara.will do.

2011-06-26T18:34:25.573+01:00

Nuala go raibh maith agat a cara.will do.

book noted for future reference John Magir greeti...

2011-06-26T18:05:45.298+01:00

book noted for future reference

John Magir
greetings from Donegal.

Marty, Will get Albert to bring it to work tomorro...

2011-06-26T17:02:14.085+01:00

Marty,
Will get Albert to bring it to work tomorrow, if her ladyship wants to call and collect it.

michealhenry,
I really don't know what you mean?
Anyway I thought we were friends.

Fionnuala- Can't see any-one worried about wh...

2011-06-26T16:42:43.795+01:00

Fionnuala-

Can't see any-one worried about what a barstool old codger shouts in a pub- thats about the height of dissent-

Ryan, Yes to the shady and the knee capping. The m...

2011-06-26T16:38:14.616+01:00

Ryan,
Yes to the shady and the knee capping.
The man in question was allegedly knee capped by the 'super sticks'
My son is of the opinion that, it is still on of the safer bars on the road.

Nuala hon I will borrow that book if its ok,seems ...

2011-06-26T16:15:02.157+01:00

Nuala hon I will borrow that book if its ok,seems a worthwhile read.

Just back from a sheep watching weekend in lovely ...

2011-06-26T15:42:45.185+01:00

Just back from a sheep watching weekend in lovely Leitrim. The bar mentioned is owned and run by a friend of mine Phil Mc Cann bro of Jazz, I like it

Used to stay in Crocus St on my visits to belfast....

2011-06-26T14:53:04.094+01:00

Used to stay in Crocus St on my visits to belfast. would always walk by the hawthorn but was too scared to walk in. undoubtedly the shadiest looking bar in all of belfast and thats saying something. wasn't a guy kneecapped in there a few months ago?

Nuala, the name of the bar came toe just after I ...

2011-06-26T13:09:53.098+01:00

Nuala,

the name of the bar came toe just after I posted that response to you. I have been in a quite few bars with Kevin ... Belfast, Dublin, London, Southampton, Manchester and Southampton!! I have had him in dives! We like out tipple. He would know a lot of bars in Belfast.

You are right about what the book does for understanding the dialectic between community and the Provisionals.

Mackers, My son and his friends drink in that bar,...

2011-06-26T13:00:06.965+01:00

Mackers,
My son and his friends drink in that bar, it is called the 'Hawthorne'
My son also called Kevin was in the bar the night McGuinness made his first traitors speech.
He told me some time later, that the bar which is known for its 'quiet pint' atmosphere totally erupted.
He said, only elderly man who had previously been nearly snoozing, lunched towards the television, yelling 'I would snuff the life out of you treacherous bastard'
Maybe the other Kevin goes there for the entertainment value.
Seriously though, Kevin's book is brilliantly reseached and written.
I think this book, more than any other I have ever read on the subject, clearly presents the pull and the dilemma that community presented for the Provos.

Alec, I remember the document being mentioned as...

2011-06-25T20:08:14.641+01:00

Alec,

I remember the document being mentioned as well but nobody ever saw it or produced it. The I recall at some point being told it was just a set of principles.

We will never see all the dirty detail There are bits of it all over the place. I think it is like a jigsaw. We can always increase our knowledge of it but will never get the thing completed. Lots of works need read rather than just one.

I distinctly recall at the time there being a refe...

2011-06-25T19:58:19.698+01:00

I distinctly recall at the time there being a reference to a document. In fact, some of us asked to see the detail of the dialog between the two but were never furnished with anything tangible. Whatever it was it signaled to the British, in a very clear way, what Adams was prepared to settle for in the talks.

What I would like to see is all the dirty detail of the process which ultimately lead to the political defeat of Provisional republicanism. The story of the peace process in all its gory detail has yet to be told.

Alec, and you are not getting my copy. I don'...

2011-06-25T18:19:49.888+01:00

Alec,

and you are not getting my copy. I don't know how many books you are still returning to me! I am a touch surprised that you even raise this as you know just how big the lie is. The Brits knew from early on just how little Adams was prepared to settle up for. It was conveyed to them often enough. We know an unarmed strategy was being floated as early as 1982 and again in 1986.

Hume Adams was more a concept than a document. Seamus Mallon made it clear that there was no difference between it and the Downing Street Declaration, if memory serves me right. Myself and Pat Beag had a bad tempered public debate about it in the Felons.

I haven't managed to get my hands on this book...

2011-06-25T17:50:47.900+01:00

I haven't managed to get my hands on this book yet. I met Kevin and know he is passionate about his subject matter. The big question for republicans like myself is: just how big was the lie told us by Adams et al?

The Hume-Adams document remains a closely guarded secret even today. How much ground did Adams concede in this engagement which acted as a precursor to the negotiations. If what Ed Maloney says is true and everyone knew exactly what was on the menu then we were lied to on a grand scale.

Alan, in my view it would be money well spent. H...

2011-06-24T20:56:23.603+01:00

Alan,

in my view it would be money well spent. He is such a good analyst.

Anthony A fascinating critique of what appears t...

2011-06-24T20:45:30.294+01:00

Anthony

A fascinating critique of what appears to be a very in-depth analysis of how a political movement , like the flowing river , adapts to all the "rocks of fortune" and the "soft sand of diplomacy" , and ends at it's only destination , by a vicarious route .
On the strength of your review , I am going to get a copy , and heavy read though it may be , I have no doubt that it will be both entertaining and enlightening .

Alan C

Nuala, he did a very good booklet in the 90s cal...

2011-06-24T20:06:37.878+01:00

Nuala,

he did a very good booklet in the 90s called The New Departure:
Recent Developments in Irish Republican Ideology & Strategy

SF should do the decent thing and re-name themselv...

2011-06-24T17:41:35.257+01:00

SF should do the decent thing and re-name themselves SDLP 'B' team. And they should reflect if 30yrs war was the correct way to go about applying for a position with expenses on the local councils.